Montana FWP makes seismic shift in elk permits

mtmiller

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Is that really Brad Molnar commenting? I know he has been vocal, but it would be useful to point out to others who see everything through a partisan lens that these ideas are so bad even elected Rs are turning against it.
considering that Brad called into several meetings and threw shade and Greg and his commission, I’d bet it’s really him.
When I read the comment yesterday, I figured it wasn’t really him. That being said, I hope you are correct.
 

sapperJ24

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Brad did not really hold back on his comments on Dec 14. His remarks are at 3:57:20. "expect nothing good to come out of your efforts [the commission] the next four years."

edit: I don't know if Molnar always felt this way or if was due to his crossbow accommodation getting shot down. Maybe there was supposed to be some sort of quid pro quo.

 
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GLA-FLA

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despite being a born/raised MT resident of 33 years, this is the first time I’ve taken real interest in the season restructuring, given the gravity of proposed season changes..

can anyone clarify where we go from here in terms of timeline.. I suspect FWP and the commission is currently conducting “thoughtful review” of public comment?

is there now a calendar date that non-negotiable changes will be implemented?

thanks!
 

Beignet

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despite being a born/raised MT resident of 33 years, this is the first time I’ve taken real interest in the season restructuring, given the gravity of proposed season changes..

can anyone clarify where we go from here in terms of timeline.. I suspect FWP and the commission is currently conducting “thoughtful review” of public comment?

is there now a calendar date that non-negotiable changes will be implemented?

thanks!
Changes will be finalized/adopted at the February 4th Commission meeting.

Hopefully more folks around the state also found themselves paying attention this year and will continue to do so!
 

Ben Lamb

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Changes will be finalized/adopted at the February 4th Commission meeting.

Hopefully more folks around the state also found themselves paying attention this year and will continue to do so!

This. But there will continue to be opportunity for engagement once the seasons are set. Remember that season setting is just one part of this effort, and that the legislature as well as the Governor's office are still actively looking at longer term solutions to the elk issue. PLPW will have a large role in determining new landowner incentives (whether that's transferable tags or something else is yet to be determined) and the Environmental Quality Council is meeting in late March to discuss the 454 program and agreements that were approved this past year in a pretty top-down, anti-local control fashion.

Season setting is not the hill to die on, and the likelihood of turning back all bad proposals is small, because this is exactly what the governor campaigned on so he feels the need to deliver. But the future isn't set, and unless folks continue to pull at the levers of power, demanding to be heard, then the bastards will win. We can build off the momentum that season setting has started, and turn that spark into a fire to change the system so that real & effective management can occur. Stay focused on policy and not politics, so you keep the tribalism at bay and ears don't get shut just because of the silliness of American partisanship.
 

MTelkHuntress

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https://missoulacurrent.com/outdoors/2022/01/draft-elk-plan/

"FWP administrator Ken McDonald said the department was still developing an elk plan, and he anticipated a draft plan would be out by this fall."

"McDonald and Worsech indicated the elk plan could change a fair amount by the time it is finalized. McDonald said they could change or eliminate the objectives or requirements, such as the one to count only accessible elk, because it raises the question of when and where are elk accessible."


Is it wrong of me to be a little bit worried about what this new plan will be?


"Worsech said he’d be hiring more biologists but that he’d already asked the biologists to come up with elk season changes to fulfill his directive of combining districts and making the hunt as liberal as possible. In December, Worsech told the FWP commission he’d like to eliminate the biological considerations and base elk objectives entirely on social tolerance."
 

Nameless Range

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https://missoulacurrent.com/outdoors/2022/01/draft-elk-plan/

"FWP administrator Ken McDonald said the department was still developing an elk plan, and he anticipated a draft plan would be out by this fall."

"McDonald and Worsech indicated the elk plan could change a fair amount by the time it is finalized. McDonald said they could change or eliminate the objectives or requirements, such as the one to count only accessible elk, because it raises the question of when and where are elk accessible."


Is it wrong of me to be a little bit worried about what this new plan will be?


"Worsech said he’d be hiring more biologists but that he’d already asked the biologists to come up with elk season changes to fulfill his directive of combining districts and making the hunt as liberal as possible. In December, Worsech told the FWP commission he’d like to eliminate the biological considerations and base elk objectives entirely on social tolerance."

I'm worried. I have lost any room in my head or heart for being charitable with this administration and version of FWP. How could you?
 

Ben Lamb

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I'm worried. I have lost any room in my head or heart for being charitable with this administration and version of FWP. How could you?

Ultimately, the Commission makes the decision on the new EMP. So far, the commission has shown their willingness to listen to input from everyone, even though the agency hasn't.

Same with PLPW, they will be the group advancing elk legislation (for the most part) and they've been open about wanting input.

That's the key to getting a new EMP that works - the commission. It's also why it's important to cultivate those relationships instead of alienate those folks.
 

bigsky2

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https://missoulacurrent.com/outdoors/2022/01/draft-elk-plan/

"FWP administrator Ken McDonald said the department was still developing an elk plan, and he anticipated a draft plan would be out by this fall."

"McDonald and Worsech indicated the elk plan could change a fair amount by the time it is finalized. McDonald said they could change or eliminate the objectives or requirements, such as the one to count only accessible elk, because it raises the question of when and where are elk accessible."


Is it wrong of me to be a little bit worried about what this new plan will be?


"Worsech said he’d be hiring more biologists but that he’d already asked the biologists to come up with elk season changes to fulfill his directive of combining districts and making the hunt as liberal as possible. In December, Worsech told the FWP commission he’d like to eliminate the biological considerations and base elk objectives entirely on social tolerance."
Yikes.

“The types of proposals that are in front of them now, whether there’s a new elk plan or not, this is for a two year period. It’s looking at tools to affect elk management. And by looking at those tools now, that doesn’t limit a future commission from implementing a future elk management plan,” McDonald said. - I'm having flashbacks to shoulder season discussions.
 

BuzzH

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Let them do it...honestly the sooner rock bottom is hit, the sooner even the dimmest of dim bulbs will take notice and start turning out to advocate.

In the meantime kill every elk and deer you can (legally)...that's what they want.

Take your friends and family along too...no survivors. Turn Montana into the wasteland/biological desert they want.
 

Ben Lamb

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Let them do it...honestly the sooner rock bottom is hit, the sooner even the dimmest of dim bulbs will take notice and start turning out to advocate.

In the meantime kill every elk and deer you can (legally)...that's what they want.

Take your friends and family along too...no survivors. Turn Montana into the wasteland they want.

How'd that work out for Utah?
 

Nameless Range

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Let them do it...honestly the sooner rock bottom is hit, the sooner even the dimmest of dim bulbs will take notice and start turning out to advocate.

In the meantime kill every legal elk and deer you can...that's what they want.

Take your friends and family along too...no survivors.

Buzz, you are right about a lot of things, but I personally question whether this is how it will play out. Sometimes I wonder if those dimmest of bulbs will just lie down in the belly of the wasteland and blame the wolves and the libs.
 

TrumpkinTheDwarf

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My body is in Texas, but home is the Big Sky count
Let them do it...honestly the sooner rock bottom is hit, the sooner even the dimmest of dim bulbs will take notice and start turning out to advocate.

In the meantime kill every elk and deer you can (legally)...that's what they want.

Take your friends and family along too...no survivors. Turn Montana into the wasteland/biological desert they want.
I hate your attitude. And I hate that I'm struggling to muster the energy to disagree with your attitude.
 

neffa3

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Let them do it...honestly the sooner rock bottom is hit, the sooner even the dimmest of dim bulbs will take notice and start turning out to advocate.

In the meantime kill every elk and deer you can (legally)...that's what they want.

Take your friends and family along too...no survivors. Turn Montana into the wasteland/biological desert they want.
I can assure you, when you hit "rock bottom" you'll find there's still quite a bit lower they can go.

I get tired of saying this over and over, but look at WA. If you came here you'd call this rock bottom. But WDFW thinks things are find and still plugging away down the same downward trajectory.
 

shoots-straight

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Let them do it...honestly the sooner rock bottom is hit, the sooner even the dimmest of dim bulbs will take notice and start turning out to advocate.

In the meantime kill every elk and deer you can (legally)...that's what they want.

Take your friends and family along too...no survivors. Turn Montana into the wasteland/biological desert they want.
This might be true to a point. As already pointed out, the dimmest usually go the deter route.

This is the easy thing to do, and giving up is not who I am.

While I expect the worst, I'm hoping for the best. We can do better.

RW
 

Ben Lamb

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Honestly, I think Utah may be a better option than Montana...and I wish I was kidding.

If Utah had the potential and habitat Montana did, I'd rather take Utah's wildlife management than what Montana is doing/attempting to pawn off as "management" now....again, I wish I was kidding.

I love you like a brother, but no.

To quote Wyatt Earp, "The fighting's commenced. Get to fighting or get out of the way."
 

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