Caribou Gear

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neffa3 said:
As always great work @wllm1313 both with the trip and the post adventure thread. Second, I appreciate your thoughts on llamas. But I'm a little surprised you don't fawn over them more.

I must be a weenie, all I can think about, no matter the packout... is gawdamn there must be a better way. And right now that better way is shaped like a llama.
Elk this year was only like 3.5 miles, mostly on trail. I wanted a llama
Deer this year was similar distance, but up and down steep canyons and talus. I wanted a llama.
If I had antelope tag I might be saying, I want a llama (though I admit they're pretty damn packable).

Hell, I'm to the point where if I'm so far I couldn't shoot the truck I want a llama.
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If
 
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wllm1313 said:
If I'm being completely honest I've used llamas because I wanted to hunt a couple of specific areas. I didn't really care what I got, but they are kinda iconic CO spots and I wanted to get back in there. (Moving to the east coast and all that)

I know we walked past a bunch of much bigger bulls, and the llamas certainly didn't help us escape any pressure.

2 miles down trail from our camp was a drop camp with 4 hunters, 1.5 miles down trail were 2 guys that were dropped off by friends, 1 mile below us was a camp of 8 guys from Texas with 12 horses, immediately next to us was a great guy and his wife hunting who had been dropped off with horses, up the trail 3/4 of a mile from us was another wall tent camp of hunters... 4? So including us 22 hunters + 18 stock in a relatively small area.

The husband-wife pair were super nice and we chatted a bit, glassing for 2 days they came up with 1 4x5 bull and a single cow, night before the opener we saw 1 small 5x5 and 5 cows. We got up high on a nob on Friday with the spotter and glassed till dark. No deer/sheep/bears/ etc just 6 elk in one group.

Point being llamas are not some panacea, at least in CO.

It's not like all of a sudden you get in 10+ miles and suddenly the clouds part, a ray of sun flashes down on some monster 380 bull.

You didn't kill a bull this year in CO without llamas, I'm gonna be honest you aren't going to kill elk with llamas.

That view though...😋
View attachment 158439

Rent llamas in the summer, go check out some trophy country with your family, drink some coffee with your wife in front of a that stunning view, tell her it's pretty great but she's the most beautiful thing you've seen, then go into some oak brush/timber hell hole that no llama or horse will enter and find some elk.
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For me it's not about finding and killing anything, I can handle that. It's just getting it out. I still can't figure out how anyone even gets a buck and a backpack camp out in a single load. I have weighed two bucks, post processing and came up with 93 and 108 lbs. Yes, each of those include 12-20 lbs of extra fat, but they also don't include at least 20-30 lbs of trim that got tossed. Add that to my 53 lbs of camp (which included food and water, so maybe a little less coming out) and there's just no freakin' chance at 148lbs I'm packing my body weight out of anywhere. So now we're at two trips, unless we're talking elk, then we're talking at least four. The entire point of llamas would be to keep it one trip, maybe two max (for an elk).
 
neffa3 said:
For me it's not about finding and killing anything, I can handle that. It's just getting it out. I still can't figure out how anyone even gets a buck and a backpack camp out in a single load. I have weighed two bucks, post processing and came up with 93 and 108 lbs. Yes, each of those include 12-20 lbs of extra fat, but they also don't include at least 20-30 lbs of trim that got tossed. Add that to my 53 lbs of camp (which included food and water, so maybe a little less coming out) and there's just no freakin' chance at 148lbs I'm packing my body weight out of anywhere. So now we're at two trips, unless we're talking elk, then we're talking at least four. The entire point of llamas would be to keep it one trip, maybe two max (for an elk).
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I've only weighed on buck so N=1 but I think we can agree @SnowyMountaineer buck's are above average and if I am remembering correctly his median weight seems to be around 65 lbs boned out?

I'm assuming your talking boned in?

That said yeah I agree 148 stupid. I did 100lbs last year one trip and it sucked but was doable.

We did the elk this year in one trip, to the trail. I had 140ish, I weigh like 143 right now. Dumb, I had the head and fell a couple times, got pinned in a bush once, and tripped and slid down a slope about 25 yards. Came out none the worse for wear... but it was really stupid.

That said, not sure how we would have gotten the llamas to the elk, would have just been two human trips. So not really any help.
 
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wllm1313 said:
I've only weighed on buck so N=1 but I think we can agree @SnowyMountaineer buck's are above average and if I am remembering correctly his median weight seems to be around 65 lbs boned out?

I'm assuming your talking boned in?

That said yeah I agree 148 stupid. I did 100lbs last year one trip and it sucked but was doable.

We did the elk this year in one trip, to the trail. I had 140ish, I weigh like 143 right now. Dumb, I had the head and fell a couple times, got pinned in a bush once, and tripped and slid down a slope about 25 yards. Came out none the worse for wear... but it was really stupid.
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For me, even 100 lbs is not going to happen anymore. I can feel my life shortening with every step. I still want to be doing this in my 60s. I don't want to have back and hip issues in my 50s.

And no, I mean 100% boned out, cut and wrapped and ready for the freezer weight. Those were from two Nov 4-point mule deer. My hunting partner and I keep questioning where people keep getting their weights. All we can think is that we pack more of the meat out, but that doesn't make any sense because I'm sure you guys are taking ALL the meat scraps as well. On that same thread, we've also never weighed a bone-in elk hind quarter that was ever less than 73 lbs, often they're in the 80s, yet people keep saying they only weigh 65. Hell this year we had two guys come by our camp while we were fixing dinner each claimed to have 1/2 an elk, yet they were standing straight up. We had just got done packing out a bull in three packs and we were all hunched over, it's just physics the pendulum has to be balanced. I don't know what conclusions to draw from any of that, like I said, maybe I'm just a whimp.
 
Yeah I get roughly 60# meat 5-7# head pretty consistently. That's all four quarters above the knee/hock, backstrap and tenderloin.
 
wllm1313 said:
Nah I don't think you are a wimp in the least.

Here's Wyoming's studies based on a huge sample size (all things consider). I'm sure there are lots of regional/time of year variations, pressure/rut activity/feed quality that come into play.

The hind quarters on this bull were ~50 my BILs bull in the same unit were ~80. I possibly take the backstrap too far into the hindquarter and get a bunch of rump 🤷‍♂️

I think also male ungulates are going to be at their heaviest just before the rut and lightest just after peak rut.

So a august elk is going to be max for that animal, a first season bull will be at it's lightest.
Mule deer a buck will be heaviest in late Oct-mid Nov. Snowy is hunting them 2 months before they hit peak weight, whereas you are hunting them at their heaviest.

View attachment 158452

View attachment 158453
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At first I was thrown off, by:
1603133149482.png

But like your tables show, they have results for 8 different age categories for each gender.

Then I went back through and they are using ratios form those 6 and extrapolating them to the larger whole weight study from 1961.

I guess I'm not sold only 6 bulls, 4 of which were basically the same age, to be representative of "elk" in the west.

Also, like you mentioned they collected these bulls at the end of the rut.

Same general comments about the mule deer, though I strongly disagree with there field dressed weights. 113lbs for a buck with his head and hide still on?
1603133558808.png
I just weighed the smallest mule deer I've ever shot, like literally 2 min ago as it's hanging in my shed, it's maybe 3.5 years old, but probably 2.5. It's at 98 pounds, no head or hide. And this thing is a fraction of a mature buck weight.
 
neffa3 said:
At first I was thrown off, by:
View attachment 158468

But like your tables show, they have results for 8 different age categories for each gender.

Then I went back through and they are using ratios form those 6 and extrapolating them to the larger whole weight study from 1961.

I guess I'm not sold only 6 bulls, 4 of which were basically the same age, to be representative of "elk" in the west.

Also, like you mentioned they collected these bulls at the end of the rut.

Same general comments about the mule deer, though I strongly disagree with there field dressed weights. 113lbs for a buck with his head and hide still on?
View attachment 158470
I just weighed the smallest mule deer I've ever shot, like literally 2 min ago as it's hanging in my shed, it's maybe 3.5 years old, but probably 2.5. It's at 98 pounds, no head or hide. And this thing is a fraction of a mature buck weight.
Click to expand...
The 6 and 6, I believe were just to show percentage of cut breakdown, ie skin head, versus boned out meat.

The average weights by age class was derived from check station data, 3541 from 107 check station in WY. They assumed the percentages were similar and extrapolated the check station weights. (my understanding)
 
Late to the party... for sharing some semblance of our packing traits. I'll get back in line and not detour the thread beyond this one. haha!

Next YouTube may resemble this. not 140#'s... though 240# w/ snow shoes? 27-28th - prepping for more "suffering". Crazy as this sounds, the part I dread is the drive to the closed gate. It's simply a long PITA drive. getting out and doing the "suffering" is the challenging fun part. Haha!


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