Use Promo Code Randy for 20% off OutdoorClass

Colorado increase in buck tags ?

Rooster52

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,818
Anyone hear that Colorado is increasing there buck tags for 2016 in NW units ? Seems a stupid thing to do after a high deer mortality from the winter.
I even considered withdrawing my app from the things I read about the winter deer kill and now they say they are increasing the number of tags for this year.

Whats with that ??
 

HighDesertSage

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
3,535
Location
Sage Brush to Corn Fields
You know I talked with several locals after I posted about my drive to Meeker/Baggs, and everyone was of the opinion that it was nothing out of the ordinary for a typical year up there. I though it looked kind of brutal up there, but hey if that's not the case this is good news.

Side note, did they release their pop. estimates yet?
 

jvanhoy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,201
Location
VA
You know I talked with several locals after I posted about my drive to Meeker/Baggs, and everyone was of the opinion that it was nothing out of the ordinary for a typical year up there. I though it looked kind of brutal up there, but hey if that's not the case this is good news.

Side note, did they release their pop. estimates yet?

I talked to the meeker office a few days ago and was told it wasn't as bad as first thought. Let's hope so!
 

cur dog

Active member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
483
I've just finished reading the report that marksjeep posted. This is what I gather from the report. Elk numbers are well above objective, so they cut tags slightly.:p Deer numbers are reported to be well below objective, so they raise tag numbers.:confused: I've never been the smartest kid in the class. Maybe somebody can set me straight, on this logic.
 

HighDesertSage

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
3,535
Location
Sage Brush to Corn Fields
I couldn't wait until lunch:D

Alot of good news for CO. Tags in my unit went up, and it looks like the statewide mule deer population went up to 436K, which is a decent jump from last years estimate of 424K.
 

HalfAce

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
547
Its been kind of hard to follow what's been going on in CO this winter. The DOW saying things were on track to be one of the worst winters ever, guys saying they think the deer are UNDER the snow since they didn't see them, then seeing raised quotas in the units that supposedly saw the harder winter, and DOW now saying the winter wasn't as bad as they thought. Either way, its a shame to hear about the tough winter because I drove through that part of the state a few times last fall and it did my heart good to see all the mule deer does with twins, even saw a doe with triplets. To lose that segment of the herd is a DAMN shame as there were tons of fawns. If there are higher numbers of bucks 1.5 years and older, I understand the increase in buck tags. I guess enjoy the next 2 or 3 years, then it may be slim pickings for a season or two for the herd to cycle through this winters loss of fawns.
 

marksjeep

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
1,054
Location
Grand Jct, CO
Glad to help. I skipped over all the intro/summary information and jumped right to the units I applied for, so I'm glad the population data look good. I hope to have some time to read it later this week. CPW meeting minutes and final regulations should be posted online later this week as well.
 

Rooster52

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,818
Something is not adding up to me. We are under objective all over the West 4 mule deer . we were down In deer population since the winter kill of 2007 and now they say we are 20% over objective. That sounds like a miracle to me.
 
Last edited:

Oak

Expert
Joined
Dec 23, 2000
Messages
14,387
Location
Colorado
Something is not adding up to me. We are under objective all over the West 4 mule deer . we were down In deer population since the winter kill of 2007 and now they say we are 20% over objective. That sounds like a miracle to me.
Have you looked at the population objectives for each individual herd, as well as the buck:doe ratios for those herds?
 

Oak

Expert
Joined
Dec 23, 2000
Messages
14,387
Location
Colorado
Why? Do your on the ground observations conflict with their numbers, or have you been reading the opinions of people on other hunting forums whose livelihoods depend on being able to sell deer and elk hunts?

Have you looked at the history of the units in question?
 

Rooster52

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,818
I agree things were looking good last fall but more. Buck tags could set things backwards.But I am not a biologist.
 

Oak

Expert
Joined
Dec 23, 2000
Messages
14,387
Location
Colorado
I agree things were looking good last fall but more. Buck tags could set things backwards.But I am not a biologist.

The history includes more than one year. Can you explain how saving bucks, which are already over 20% over the buck:doe objective, is going to help grow the population?

People need to realize that the biological objectives to which CPW manages the herds are not necessarily the objectives hunters want them to manage for (trophy quality).
 

Rooster52

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,818
Saving bucks will not grow the population by much but it wil increase the mature bucks in the population,but not everyone is after a mature buck.The oppertunity to hunt is all some are after. I do understand that. Increase in buck tags will appeal to thoughs hunters.
 

squirrel

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
599
Why? Do your on the ground observations conflict with their numbers, or have you been reading the opinions of people on other hunting forums whose livelihoods depend on being able to sell deer and elk hunts?

Have you looked at the history of the units in question?

Your instincts are right Rooster, tag me and let me have this ball...

Yes my observations conflict, and they conflict badly. I always thought the counts were delusional and thought it was mostly a problem with their model, as in the way they design the count, as opposed to the way they physically execute the count itself, and I thought they used a bit of a magic wand in the office to come up with what they wanted to come up with in the first place.
I've heard some stories that did not jibe with the grid search (of sections) random selection of grids model. I chalked it up to long distance observer errors and the real possibility of lucky draws on the section numbers (not likely but possible mind you).

Anecdote #1 the count

Last winter (a 3-1/2 wire winter) I was sitting on a hill trying not to freeze my acorns off and watched a herd of deer in a large sage draw, assume for this purpose it is perfectly east>west... DOW helo comes up the draw hovering forever over the tall sage flushing everything out, maybe 50-60 head, they hover chase for 5 minutes or so counting, moving every deer either north or south as the snow got very deep if going east/up. The helo then goes 5-6 miles away and does 10 minutes over there (probably doing the same thing but I do not know for certain as a hill obscured it from my view)

Then they came back and worked one draw north of the original, now supplemented by numerous deer from draw "A", most break north again probably cause they just got chased in "A", the helo goes off to the west for 15 minutes, comes back and works the draw south of 'A" and this carried on, working outward from the original draw, until the original deer were possibly counted 5-6 times and were fleeing in panic five-six miles from where I had been watching them in draw "A".


Anecdote #2 winter kill brutal winter 8-10 yrs ago

I needed trot line weights and RR spikes make great weights, I walked a mile or so of tracks and counted 34 casualties 3-4 of which were still dragging around their asses after having them crushed. Of course I did not shoot them as that would be ILLEGAL... Heavy snow that night- 12-16 inches- in the early am I see DOW park in front of my house and walk up to the RR, this was very unusual to see them out of the truck, I was feeding animals when she returned and told me only 2 dead deer the animals were in great shape, the herd was doing very well. (the other 32 being covered by all that fresh snow???) Knowing differently I counted dead deer the following spring when I started walking, I was in the upper 330's within sight of my house when I finally figured I had found almost all of them, this is not an exact head count because when you get hit by a 65 MPH train sometimes there are heads missing (count the hooves and divide by four)


Buck : Doe ratios??? it's a ratio you can have a good one by having a lot of bucks or by having few does, you get paid the same for a buck tag as a doe tag remember??? So if you kill tons of does then you have numerical permission to kill those "extra" bucks the following year...

These people are stupid but they aren't THAT STUPID... they got this math shit figured out!

And alas the sun is up and my chariot awaits, I could go on all day, but it would be pointless, they have a license to print money, and they do.
 

Oak

Expert
Joined
Dec 23, 2000
Messages
14,387
Location
Colorado
It's amazing we have any deer left in the state given the doom and gloom from the barstool biologists. Yet preference point creep continues to grow as demand to hunt our poorly managed deer herds increases.
 

HighDesertSage

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
3,535
Location
Sage Brush to Corn Fields
Your instincts are right Rooster, tag me and let me have this ball...

Yes my observations conflict, and they conflict badly. I always thought the counts were delusional and thought it was mostly a problem with their model, as in the way they design the count, as opposed to the way they physically execute the count itself, and I thought they used a bit of a magic wand in the office to come up with what they wanted to come up with in the first place.
I've heard some stories that did not jibe with the grid search (of sections) random selection of grids model. I chalked it up to long distance observer errors and the real possibility of lucky draws on the section numbers (not likely but possible mind you).

Anecdote #1 the count

Last winter (a 3-1/2 wire winter) I was sitting on a hill trying not to freeze my acorns off and watched a herd of deer in a large sage draw, assume for this purpose it is perfectly east>west... DOW helo comes up the draw hovering forever over the tall sage flushing everything out, maybe 50-60 head, they hover chase for 5 minutes or so counting, moving every deer either north or south as the snow got very deep if going east/up. The helo then goes 5-6 miles away and does 10 minutes over there (probably doing the same thing but I do not know for certain as a hill obscured it from my view)

Then they came back and worked one draw north of the original, now supplemented by numerous deer from draw "A", most break north again probably cause they just got chased in "A", the helo goes off to the west for 15 minutes, comes back and works the draw south of 'A" and this carried on, working outward from the original draw, until the original deer were possibly counted 5-6 times and were fleeing in panic five-six miles from where I had been watching them in draw "A".


Anecdote #2 winter kill brutal winter 8-10 yrs ago

I needed trot line weights and RR spikes make great weights, I walked a mile or so of tracks and counted 34 casualties 3-4 of which were still dragging around their asses after having them crushed. Of course I did not shoot them as that would be ILLEGAL... Heavy snow that night- 12-16 inches- in the early am I see DOW park in front of my house and walk up to the RR, this was very unusual to see them out of the truck, I was feeding animals when she returned and told me only 2 dead deer the animals were in great shape, the herd was doing very well. (the other 32 being covered by all that fresh snow???) Knowing differently I counted dead deer the following spring when I started walking, I was in the upper 330's within sight of my house when I finally figured I had found almost all of them, this is not an exact head count because when you get hit by a 65 MPH train sometimes there are heads missing (count the hooves and divide by four)


Buck : Doe ratios??? it's a ratio you can have a good one by having a lot of bucks or by having few does, you get paid the same for a buck tag as a doe tag remember??? So if you kill tons of does then you have numerical permission to kill those "extra" bucks the following year...

These people are stupid but they aren't THAT STUPID... they got this math shit figured out!

And alas the sun is up and my chariot awaits, I could go on all day, but it would be pointless, they have a license to print money, and they do.

So, let me make sure I am following you here, as your post is somewhat difficult to decipher. Are you accusing CPW of intentionally "cooking the books" on mule deer numbers for financial gain? If so, I would have to disagree with you on this. CO, IMHO, offers the finest public land mule deer hunting in the west. Reasoning would lead me to believe that if CPW was inflating the numbers, our mule deer hunting would be going down the toilet, which it is not. I have hunted and been a resident of a few different western states, and I can tell you we really do have it good here. Also, one thing to note, is the majority of the tag increases are buck tags. If you look at the report that Marksjeep posted doe tags, for the most part, stayed the same.
 
Yeti

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
101,002
Messages
1,606,332
Members
31,641
Latest member
Danny Dinkey Adventures
Top