Yeti GOBOX Collection

CO Muzzleloader Prep

shannerdrake

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Joined
Feb 14, 2017
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962
Location
Indiana
Hey HT Community, I wanted to start a thread to share my adventures in preparing for an upcoming CO muzzleloader hunt. Particularly the preparation of the muzzleloader. As you know for CO on your ML you cannot use sabots, must have loose powder, and cannot have scopes. This was a departure from my usual ML setup and had to do some preparation.

I started with my old Remington Genesis which has always been good to me. My eyesight is not great, so I opted for a peep and globe setup. Williams Gunsight Makes a package deal that is worth checking out. It is $100 and comes with several globe inserts. Unfortunately, I had shim the rear sight to get everything to line up. I also had to put two shims under my buddy's rear sight as well. This is a very common situation and I wish Williams would include a couple shims. It would cost them pennies and really help the customer - Williams I hope you are listening!

A note on the peep sight, it is awesome when the target is well lit and the sight is well lit. However, it is VERY hard to see the front sight in poor lighting. I did a few things to try to help. I painted the inside of the globe white to gather more light. This helped a bit, but i still struggled to pick out the thinner crosshairs. I actually ended up taking a piece of fiber optic cable from an old bow sight, cutting out the center of a globe insert and gluing the optic in place. I think it will work pretty well, but again - Williams should make this insert!

I was able to shoot a six inch 150 yard group with this sight setup, but it was under near perfect conditions.

Next issue to address was the projectile. In my opinion, there are really only two choices - Thor or Federal Copper BOR Lock. I am sold on solid copper bullets. Read some of the studies on lead fragmentation on big game kills. You should not be shooting things for your table with lead, but I digress. I won't go into Thor vs Fed ML bullets, but I went with the Federal bullets. They have a collar that insures tight fit, are accurate, and can be bought about anywhere. If you lose your custom sized Thors on your way to your hunt how do you intend to replace those? The Feds load easy and are accurate and satisfy the CO full bore requirement. A 270 grain copper bullet at 1900FPS is a solid killer.

Last component to discuss is powder. I will post that separate to keep length down.
 
For powder, I jumped on the Buckhorn 209 bandwagon. I read all the accolades about how incredible it was for ease of loading, increased FPS, consistent FPS, etc. I will say upfront that BH is very easy to load even after 10 shots without cleaning. That is great at the range, but is sort of worthless in the field - how many of you have fired 10 rounds while ML hunting without cleaning?

I will also add that when your ML gets too dirty with 777, it gets very hard to load. With BH it just doesn't go boom when you pull the trigger.

My personal experience with BH has been about 100FPS velocity spread (chrono verified) which his not very good. Extreme primer blowback. And several failures to fire around the 10 shot count. My experience has been the BH is extremely finicky about ignition. Also I'm only getting about 1900 FPS on max loads which is no better than 777 and actually less in my experience.

I called Western powders and they advised me to get small rubber O-rings and place them in the primer pocket, so I did. But this pushed the primer out so far that I couldn't close the action. So I ended up buying a backup breech plug so I could experiment with the original breech plug. I ended up drilling it deeper to allow room to close the action with an o-ring in the primer pocket along with the primer. I am going to stress test this new setup this weekend to see if I can get a failure to fire. I will provide an update. I should add that I am using CCI magnum primers.

Lastly, if you are using BH, you absolutely must get a digital scale. This powder is extremely inconsistent by volume. I have a calibrated digital powder scale and am currently looking at four tubes of 84gr of weighed BH and they currently range from 100-120gr by volume. I have found that if I shake and fluff the tubes I can get them all close to 120gr by volume.
 
Final Thoughts:

I think the peep/globe setup could get you a legit extra 50 yards of range over standard iron sights. However, this would be under ideal circumstances. You have to weigh out your needs. Do you need the increased accuracy and range of the peep sights or the increased visibility of the fiber optics? I am hunting more open and arid land with very little dark timber so I am sticking with the peep. Again, Williams could fix this if they made a fiber optic insert!

BH is probably an awesome powder, but I'm not sure it was worth it for me. I did not gain any FPS or consistency over my loose 777 and I gained headaches in the ignition category. So far with BH I have purchased a new breech plug, special magnum primers, and a bunch of O-rings. 777 ignites no matter what with about any primer. If you remember back with 777 came out, they recommended reduced 209 primers. I've put over 100 rounds down range with 777 and I can't remember ever having a failure to fire. I can however remember it going off when it shouldn't have like on the second day of a two day downpour.

I also want to add that I have yet to stress test BH with my modified breech plug and o-ring setup so I might be pleasantly surprised. That being said, if I knew I'd be modifying breech plugs and using O-rings, I wouldn't have even started down this path. This really defies my KISS principle when it comes to hunting gear.

Good luck this year everyone! I'm also happy to discuss in further detail and field any questions. I also want to reiterate that all of the products I have used are likely excellent products, I'm just sharing my personal experiences with my personal setup.
 
good luck! I have found I can shoot accurately as far as my old eyes can see with my regular fiber optics. and I also had the same problem with my sons breech plug and the BH powder
 
What were you using to measure the BH209 by volume? The graduated vials that I store loads in are awful but I believe it's the graduations themselves, not the powder. There are forum posts that agree. I use a graduated powder measure with an adjustable plunger and have had good success.

I haven't weighed or chronographed shots from my CVA Accura V2, but have gotten good groups with BH209 and Barnes TMZ or TEZ bullets. Never pushed past 5-7 shots without cleaning. Have the BH209 breech plug.

For hunting, I've cleaned the barrel and breach plug and then one fouling shot before hunting but I also haven't noticed a degradation on clean bore shots. Everything was with a scope since AZ allows scopes. I have iron sights that I can reinstall if I go to CO.
 
What were you using to measure the BH209 by volume? The graduated vials that I store loads in are awful but I believe it's the graduations themselves, not the powder. There are forum posts that agree. I use a graduated powder measure with an adjustable plunger and have had good success.

I haven't weighed or chronographed shots from my CVA Accura V2, but have gotten good groups with BH209 and Barnes TMZ or TEZ bullets. Never pushed past 5-7 shots without cleaning. Have the BH209 breech plug.

For hunting, I've cleaned the barrel and breach plug and then one fouling shot before hunting but I also haven't noticed a degradation on clean bore shots. Everything was with a scope since AZ allows scopes. I have iron sights that I can reinstall if I go to CO.
Good notes on the clean vs. dirty bore.

I have two volumetric measures and the BH tubes. All of them weigh differently.

Let’s be honest, a 5-10gr by volume variance isn’t going to be a difference between a dead elk and missed elk at ML ranges. However, my background in reloading and center fire makes me cringe at the inconsistencies.
 
I use tru glo ghost rings on my inline, along with hogden's triple 7. I use the same maxi balls in my inline that I use in my cap rifle with no issues. I use my cap rifle more than my inline, though.
 
After buying the BH specific breach plug for my Accura I have not had any misfires. If you try and use your original one you will have issues.

Biggest advantage I have with BH is the ease of clean up afterwards. No corrosion and as simple as cleaning a centerfire. No more boiling soapy water and strong smelling chemicals.
 
Just got back from the range. The modified breech plug and homemade fiber optic front were a success.

I should have also added at the beginning that I have worked professionally as a gunsmith and built several firearms. Therefore, I was comfortable modifying my breech plug. Anyone considering this should consult their gunsmith.

I was able to see the front sight in all lighting. I also had no misfires and eliminated all primer blowback. I also only had a 16fps spread across 14 shots. That is amazing with anything let alone a black powder substitute. To put it in perspective, my 300 Win Mag with premium ammo had a 26fps spread today with 3 shots.

I am feeling very good about this setup after today. It took some headaches to get here but I had no problem making accurate “kill” shots out to 200 yards. I zeroed at 150 and with this FPS and bullets I have a MPBR of 175. not bad with an opensight ML.
 
I don't believe it's made any longer but I loved Alliant Black MZ powder, consistent and clean. Might be worth a try if you can pick it up somewhere.

Best of luck on your hunt.
 
Hey HT Community, I wanted to start a thread to share my adventures in preparing for an upcoming CO muzzleloader hunt. Particularly the preparation of the muzzleloader. As you know for CO on your ML you cannot use sabots, must have loose powder, and cannot have scopes. This was a departure from my usual ML setup and had to do some preparation.

I started with my old Remington Genesis which has always been good to me. My eyesight is not great, so I opted for a peep and globe setup. Williams Gunsight Makes a package deal that is worth checking out. It is $100 and comes with several globe inserts. Unfortunately, I had shim the rear sight to get everything to line up. I also had to put two shims under my buddy's rear sight as well. This is a very common situation and I wish Williams would include a couple shims. It would cost them pennies and really help the customer - Williams I hope you are listening!

A note on the peep sight, it is awesome when the target is well lit and the sight is well lit. However, it is VERY hard to see the front sight in poor lighting. I did a few things to try to help. I painted the inside of the globe white to gather more light. This helped a bit, but i still struggled to pick out the thinner crosshairs. I actually ended up taking a piece of fiber optic cable from an old bow sight, cutting out the center of a globe insert and gluing the optic in place. I think it will work pretty well, but again - Williams should make this insert!

I was able to shoot a six inch 150 yard group with this sight setup, but it was under near perfect conditions.

Next issue to address was the projectile. In my opinion, there are really only two choices - Thor or Federal Copper BOR Lock. I am sold on solid copper bullets. Read some of the studies on lead fragmentation on big game kills. You should not be shooting things for your table with lead, but I digress. I won't go into Thor vs Fed ML bullets, but I went with the Federal bullets. They have a collar that insures tight fit, are accurate, and can be bought about anywhere. If you lose your custom sized Thors on your way to your hunt how do you intend to replace those? The Feds load easy and are accurate and satisfy the CO full bore requirement. A 270 grain copper bullet at 1900FPS is a solid killer.

Last component to discuss is powder. I will post that separate to keep length down.

Sorry to keep throwing info out here, but I forgot to add that if you go the globe front sight route, I HIGHLY recommend taking time to lap it down to marry it to your barrel. Mine hit on the sides only from the factory so I wrapped the end of my barrel in emory cloth and “sanded” the arch of my barrel into the front sight. It brought the sight down lower which helped with my adjustments, got rid of the ugly gap between the barrel and sight, and obviously made for a stronger mount.
 
I also have a CO muzzy tag this year. I will be trying out the Federal Lead BOR Lock. I just need to get out and shoot my muzzleloaders to see which one groups better. I have an older Knight DISC (22" barrel) in .50 cal and Traditions Pursuit LT (24" barrel) also in 50 cal. Propellant will more than likely be Pyrodex or 777. Both muzzys have their factory fiber-optic sights. I plan on keeping the shots at not more than 100 to 150yds.
 
I also have a CO muzzy tag this year. I will be trying out the Federal Lead BOR Lock. I just need to get out and shoot my muzzleloaders to see which one groups better. I have an older Knight DISC (22" barrel) in .50 cal and Traditions Pursuit LT (24" barrel) also in 50 cal. Propellant will more than likely be Pyrodex or 777. Both muzzys have their factory fiber-optic sights. I plan on keeping the shots at not more than 100 to 150yds.

Congrats on the tag and good luck! I'm not experienced with the Traditions Pursuit, but that Traditions 1-28 barrels from Spain that I've been around have all shot the copper BOR Lock well. I've actually not found any modern ML that didn't handle the BOR Locks well enough to hunt with.
 
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