Bulls for Billionaires take 2 (Wyoming edition)

BTripp86

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To be fair, Montana outfitters have it even tougher. Who wants to spend money to go shoot a 130” two year old mule deer?
Same guys from Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, etc that flock here to the midwest to stick an arrow in the first 120" 2.5 yr old whitetail they see. I mean, yeah a 120 may be the biggest deer of their life back home but I still don't get it.
 

drifter52

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Same guys from Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, etc that flock here to the midwest to stick an arrow in the first 120" 2.5 yr old whitetail they see. I mean, yeah a 120 may be the biggest deer of their life back home but I still don't get it.
I can gaureentee you pennsylvania kills whitetails bigger then 120 quite frequently they just dont brag about it that way they don't have a few thousand nr hunters over running their state
They also kill some big black bears
 

BTripp86

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I can gaureentee you pennsylvania kills whitetails bigger then 120 quite frequently they just dont brag about it that way they don't have a few thousand nr hunters over running their state
So does alot of the country. Trouble is the mindset of these people. Thing is, if someone's never taken a mule deer (or antelop, elk etc) I understand. But to spend your whole life hunting whitetails, then go out of state hoping for bigger whitetails, then shoot a dink that's a little puzzling. To each their own though. Alot of people probably don't approve of the deer I shoot.
 

drifter52

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So does alot of the country. Trouble is the mindset of these people. Thing is, if someone's never taken a mule deer (or antelop, elk etc) I understand. But to spend your whole life hunting whitetails, then go out of state hoping for bigger whitetails, then shoot a dink that's a little puzzling. To each their own though. Alot of people probably don't approve of the deer I shoot.
I dont hunt horns never have never will. I hunt to fill the freezers
I think a lot of hunters simply go our of state to get away fromntheir wife and kids thrn shoot any legal buckbthey see to convvince their spouse they.actually did go to hunt and not just party with the boys
 

SnowyMountaineer

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There was a reason they agreed so easily to 90/10 now we know why
I think we already knew why. 90/10 DEA is pretty different than 90/10 Moose Sheep Goat though. The latter was relatively low hanging fruit.
Some of the TF talk about 90/10 DEA like it’s a given that residents really want it. I’d like to see it go out to comment with a full proposal including trade-offs spelled out, because I’m not sure that it can be assumed that an overwhelming majority of resident hunters want it that badly. Maybe so, I just don’t think it’s a safe assumption.
 

idahohuntr

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Ask these outfitters if they support social programs that provide welfare, medicaid, disability etc.....because they are asking for the same thing.

When did it become OK for the government to reserve certain portions of wildlife to enrich a small portion of society?
I'd really like to see someone offer them applications for food stamps/social benefits at one of these meetings. Make it abundantly clear they are asking for government welfare/assistance and so instead of guaranteed elk tags, how about a food stamp card? Would make a great youtube video 😂
 

DougStickney

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Ask these outfitters if they support social programs that provide welfare, medicaid, disability etc.....because they are asking for the same thing.

When did it become OK for the government to reserve certain portions of wildlife to enrich a small portion of society?
My opinion is some tags need to be hunted on private without increasing tags. Montana continues to increase tags to try to throw a bone to the outfitter. Much of the habitat is on private the private needs to be hunted. Hunter distribution needs to happen or you will end up like the poop show Montana has become.
 

drifter52

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. Much of the habitat is on private the private needs to be hunted.
So pay the tresspass fees or the outfitter that leases it and go hunt it. i dont believe a landowner should be expected to just allow anyone to hunt land they pay taxes on . Because some feel entitled to the animals just because they bought a licence.
 

DougStickney

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So pay the tresspass fees or the outfitter that leases it and go hunt it. i dont believe a landowner should be expected to just allow anyone to hunt land they pay taxes on . Because some feel entitled to the animals just because they bought a licence.
Wyoming is a different animal than Montana. They manage wildlife so I should not have commented.
 

Bullshot

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Wyoming is a different animal than Montana. They manage wildlife so I should not have commented.
Well hold your horses. Let’s wait and see how this latest issue shakes out before you retract your Montana-vs-Wyoming comparison. Seems Wyoming has plenty of opportunity to choose one path……or another. All Western states are facing the pressure of growing resident demand, and special interest money motives. Time will tell. All I know is that the ever increasing demand for tags and lower odds is a kick to the rear, albeit a largely blameless one. But if schemes for increased outfitter favortism get actual traction, it’s a real kick to the NR DIY guy’s nu…..uh….front.
 

squirrel

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"This is a function of them just wanting their same clients year after year, they don't want to have to deal with working with new folks"

This is 100% the impression that I have of the guiding outfitting industry, it's not even that they don't want to do footwork it's that they don't want to have to pick up the phone an deal with an unfamiliar person.

I think it's 100% reasonable for outfitters to make a living, I don't think that DIY guys should be at odds with outfitters. But seriously, "I just want to hunt with my buddies every single year" is not a valid complaint/request.
First I ALWAYS pick up the phone, even when its the extended car warrantee girl, then (if its not her again) first question is "have we spoken before". It's just more and easier money if the groundwork has already been laid.

I like sleeping in until 5, waking up to the llamas being gone and a check on the grill. The real work is in meeting, training, new people who don't know the ropes, as in the ropes are in the yard and the llamas are the wooly things tied to the ropes...

Hunters are a captive once they get their feet wet, they never want to don a pack again. Summer people are one and done though, check that off the list type, less money and WAY more work.

Pretty sure nobody is a huge fan of more work for less money, be they outfitters or gov't workers, it is possible Ive read something to that effect on this very forum on occasion.
 

brownbear932008

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I don't think that's a world of reality. All the outfitters care about is having enough tags available to fill all of their hunts each fall. There will always be someone willing to buy a hunt if the tag is available.
Especially in WY and being able to circumvent years worth of possible preference points I'm assuming.
 

wyoelkfan15

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WYelker

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Looks like the residents of the state need to stand up and let the TRW committee know where we stand on this in the future and where we stand on the horrible idea of forcing people to choose between whitetails and mule deer.

Ultimately the task force is exactly what we could have predicted. A lobby for specific groups, nothing more... Sadly that group is not truly for residents, nor for DIY, but for those seeking to make profit off our public resource...
 

SAJ-99

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It became apparent yesterday that outfitters want clients to come to them. They don't want to spend time actually haven't to find clients, waste money on advertising, or put effort into finding new clients.

Even though they have the list of all successful applicants they seem to come up short on clients.

Sy and others said those that drew are not calling them to book hunts. Another outfitter claimed that the 1000 nrs who drew general elk tags, was too big of a list to solicit and get in touch with. Yeah nothing an industry hates more than too many potential clients.

This is a function of them just wanting their same clients year after year, rather than having to actually work to find new ones.

Another thing that I found entertaining was the complaints about the application services applying for hundreds of people. It was alleged that hunting fool applied their clients successfully for 350 general Wyoming elk tags.

Yet, Sy also made it a point to mention that outfitters have their own GF portal they log into that they can use to apply for their clients. With that tool they can see applicants point totals to apply clients in parties etc.

I'm just curious if hunting fool, epic, and the other application services have those same GF portals they can use for applying their clients?

For some reason I doubt they have that kind of access.
Unlike most here, I have some empathy for them. They find the clients and book years in advance and then in May 20 have to replace 30-50% of clients with new clients that drew. When a large part of your income is structure to a 3mo window, the ability to fill that window and set a budget is important. It would be hard to have some NR call in August and try to get a spot after they realize how much work it is. That said, I don’t think they should get special treatment, more than the Wilderness rule at least.

The problem is point creep. They have no control over it and it is frustrating as it is for NRs that apply. The solution is probably to increase prices and eliminate point buying. There is no way to determine draw odds for any of these states anymore. I feel like @Big Fin “Hunt Elk Every Year” needs to start with 1)Start applying ten years ago.
 

mulecreek

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I think we already knew why. 90/10 DEA is pretty different than 90/10 Moose Sheep Goat though. The latter was relatively low hanging fruit.
Some of the TF talk about 90/10 DEA like it’s a given that residents really want it. I’d like to see it go out to comment with a full proposal including trade-offs spelled out, because I’m not sure that it can be assumed that an overwhelming majority of resident hunters want it that badly. Maybe so, I just don’t think it’s a safe assumption.
Snowy is really on to something here. The devil is in the trade-offs. Make no mistake about it, there is a bunch of horse trading going on behind the scenes. Last discussion I had with a TF member, we left both saying whatever the TF decides, "Do not F up the Gen elk units". He knows how good we have it. He has taken and will continue to take high end bulls from the Gen units.
 

longtail55

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Thanks for the different wording, so yeah, they want 40% of NR tags reserved for outfitters. So what happens when zero NR want to use an outfitter, then what happens to those tags? Sold to the highest bidders I'm guessing and that is where this all started?
Im assuming it would be similar to New Mexico where they have a percentage (40%) specifically for the outfitters in the draw and they would have no problem having folks line up for those tags
 

Treeshark

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So what happens when zero NR want to use an outfitter, then what happens to those tags? Sold to the highest bidders I'm guessing and that is where this all started?

Sucks that this is where we are in 2022, but your scenario (which would never happen) would be an absolute dream for NR’s. As it is now, the 40% going to outfitters is probably a net positive.

What is the bare minimum an outfitter is required to do while still being classified as “guiding” a hunter? If they don’t even have to be with you, I would gladly pay to just get access to the tag- they can hang around at camp (or home) for all I care, would rather do things myself.
 
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