Brittney freed for a major Russian arms dealer. I can sleep now

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jabber

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I guess I kind of have a different take on this. I don't think there should have been a prisoner swap. You do the crime, you do the time. That goes for the ex-marine, the sports star and the arms dealer or anyone else. Don't know about the ex-marine but the ball player should have and probably did know the law and chose to break it and got caught. Do the time. Same for the arms dealer, who obviously knew he was breaking the law. Decisions, just like elections, have consequences.
 

BucksnDucks

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How do you feel about due process/presumption of guilt/sentencing/ etc. in other counties.

How do you feel about folks being jailed in various countries for things that you personally think are fine or should be legal?
That's a good question. I like the idea of liberty and due process in our American imperfect justice system. Too bad more folks aren't aware of how good they have it here.
I like beer, won't take any to Dubai. I have handguns, won't take them to Canada or Mexico. Why, because I know enough not to break laws as a visitor to foreign countries, even if I disagree with them.
Being jailed in a foreign country is a scary thought. Most travelers are self-aware enough not to believe they are above the law as a visitor.
 

FI460

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How do you feel about due process/presumption of guilt/sentencing/ etc. in other counties.

How do you feel about folks being jailed in various countries for things that you personally think are fine or should be legal?

Wasn't there an analogous case where a tourist in Russia was convicted of a similar crime as Griner but received a sentence about 1/10 of hers?
 
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QuazyQuinton

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That's a good question. I like the idea of liberty and due process in our American imperfect justice system. Too bad more folks aren't aware of how good they have it here.
I like beer, won't take any to Dubai. I have handguns, won't take them to Canada or Mexico. Why, because I know enough not to break laws as a visitor to foreign countries, even if I disagree with them.
Being jailed in a foreign country is a scary thought. Most travelers are self-aware enough not to believe they are above the law as a visitor.

I think this is even more true if you are going to another country to seek employment.

QQ
 

wllm

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That's a good question. I like the idea of liberty and due process in our American imperfect justice system. Too bad more folks aren't aware of how good they have it here.
I like beer, won't take any to Dubai. I have handguns, won't take them to Canada or Mexico. Why, because I know enough not to break laws as a visitor to foreign countries, even if I disagree with them.
Being jailed in a foreign country is a scary thought. Most travelers are self-aware enough not to believe they are above the law as a visitor.
1.
Would you kiss your wife?
Have sex with your GF (if not married yet) at a beach resort?
Have the wherewithal to know your pack of big red gum is illegal?

2.
There is at least some doubt that both either Griner or Whelan did anything, given the Russian system and their positions it's possible both were set up and/or coerced to confess. So in fact they might be totally innocent.

3.
Probably most important fact here... these are all considered by the US government as wrongful detentions/hostages/political prisoners', there are thousands of US citizens who are in foreign jails for legitimate crimes that we don't try to bring back.
 
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jabber

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How do you feel about due process/presumption of guilt/sentencing/ etc. in other counties.

How do you feel about folks being jailed in various countries for things that you personally think are fine or should be legal?
I assume you meant countries in the first question.

On the first one, in other countries they have their own laws, if you are visiting that country, you should know the laws and abide by them. I am not saying you have to know every law on the books, but if you are planning on doing something, especially involving drugs, you ought to check it out and be aware of the possible outcome. I guess the same goes for dealing arms or spying, but I would think it would go without saying that those are probably a no-no. In her case, this wasn't the first time she went to Russia. So she either previously got away with it and figured she would again, or just assumed her "status" would carry her through. And it might have if that pesky little deal with Ukraine wasn't going on. ( I realize it hadn't started yet when she got "caught", but you got to imagine Putin had it in the works already since it was less than a month later)

On the second question, I don't recall any countries ever asking me about what I thought was fine or should be legal. I don't think they care what I think. Therefore, I go back to know what you can and can't do. If you choose to dance, be prepared to pay the fiddler.

My biggest law breaking issue is speeding. I do not like to follow the speed limit (except for West Texas where it is about what it should be everywhere). I know very well that if I get caught, I will pay the price and am prepared for that. I realize that is a little different than being in jail in a different country, but the same premise applies.
 

BirdManMike

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1. Huh... seems like there is something going on here...

Bad Conduct Discharge for Larceny
Has been going to Russia off and on for a long time
Holds 4 passports?
Actually caught with classified documents on a zip drive

Could be totally innocent, but that is just an odd situation in my book 🤷‍♂️ Maybe I read too many spy novels.

Its almost like someone is trying to hoodwink us, to portray the other political party as bad hombres that hate America by spinning the tale and omitting facts. Almost, anyway, because my news source would never tell it to me any way other than straight.
 

MarvB

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I haven’t read through all the posts so forgive me if this has already been touched on but am curious here (not playing devils advocate with Whelan cuz I think him and GB are a bit like apples and oranges, or maybe Marines and giraffes) but anyway what is the diff between GB and Marc Fogel? Why didn’t he get a deal?

From what I understand Fogel, was a history teacher from Pittsburgh who taught the children of U.S. diplomats abroad, and was detained in Moscow in August 2021.

He evidently had with him a small amount of medical marijuana he used for chronic back pain. In June, Fogel, 61, was sentenced to 14 years at a labor camp… just don’t see him getting much press unless there’s a lot more to the story🤷🏻‍♂️
 

jabber

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1.
Would you kiss your wife?
Have sex with your GF at a beach resort?
Have the wherewithal to know your pack of big red gum is illegal?

2.
There is at least some doubt that both either Griner or Whelan did anything, given the Russian system and their positions it's possible both were set up and/or coerced to confess. So in fact they might be totally innocent.

3.
Probably most important fact here... these are all considered by the US government as wrongful detentions/hostages/political prisoners', there are thousands of US citizens who are in foreign jails for legitimate crimes that we don't try to bring back.
I knew you were just setting me up with your questions, that is the way you work and I appreciate that. No problem with it.

For 1. If you had sex with your GF at the beach resort, your wife probably won't be much in the kissing mood. No, I wouldn't know that gum was illegal most likely. I would have to hope that whomever I set the trip up through would relay that fact, as it is not something I would think to look up. I still go back to knowing what you can and can't do is your responsibility. The kissing your wife, I assume you mean in public must be in some middle east country where woman are not treated as equals. I wouldn't be visiting some place like that anyways.

2. I read today that she had a prescription for the drug, so I don't see how that makes her innocent under their law. I would not be surprised if that happens, but you should know that is possible prior to going and make your choices wisely.

3. I don't see how the fact that the US government considers someone as wrongfully detained makes them innocent or should give them a free pass.
 
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