Questions for Ackley & Sherman shooters

[MT_Chad]

Hey all, some of you saw in my other thread I recently ordered a 6mm Rem Ackley Improved barrel. I have been loading for my old man's 257 Ackley for a few years, but this is the first for me. I have a few questions for the guys with more experience with these blown out case cartridges.

Hydraulic form dies- Has anybody invested in one? I'm considering one to conserve reloading components. I have seen the Whidden and Hornady form dies. I have been on the lookout for an old cast iron single stage press I could get for cheap to stick out in the garage for hydraulic sizing instead of abusing my good press (and keeping it from rusting) in my reloading room.

Case annealing- I know annealing garners the level of fighting on other forums that the APR does on Hunt Talk, but do any of you that load for these rounds anneal and what has been the result? I have seen a few on here that do, but would like more feedback. If I do start annealing, I will invest in a machine, likely the Ugly Annealer, to get the job done. I'm mostly concerned about the work hardening of blowing the case out, so my thought was that annealing after the case forming would likely increase the case life.

What say the hunt talk crew?

 

[Addicting]

Hey all, some of you saw in my other thread I recently ordered a 6mm Rem Ackley Improved barrel. I have been loading for my old man's 257 Ackley for a few years, but this is the first for me. I have a few questions for the guys with more experience with these blown out case cartridges.

Hydraulic form dies- Has anybody invested in one? I'm considering one to conserve reloading components. I have seen the Whidden and Hornady form dies. I have been on the lookout for an old cast iron single stage press I could get for cheap to stick out in the garage for hydraulic sizing instead of abusing my good press (and keeping it from rusting) in my reloading room.

Case annealing- I know annealing garners the level of fighting on other forums that the APR does on Hunt Talk, but do any of you that load for these rounds anneal and what has been the result? I have seen a few on here that do, but would like more feedback. If I do start annealing, I will invest in a machine, likely the Ugly Annealer, to get the job done. I'm mostly concerned about the work hardening of blowing the case out, so my thought was that annealing after the case forming would likely increase the case life.

What say the hunt talk crew?

I did all of my expanding with cheap components and the cream of wheat method. I got inconsistent results most of the time and had to fire them once before I did any type of grouping.

Now with that experience and the cost of primers I would absolutely do a hydro die to start them.

As for annealing, I do it every other firing. I use the annealez and really like it. New brass was just annealed before it was polished to be shipped. I would hydro it then anneal then shoot it.

 

[Caseknife]

I have and load for both the 257AI and 223AI. The smith that chambered the barrels for me said that I would get better formed cases by annealing prior to forming, so that is what I did. I have the Annealeez, works great and is fun to use. For the 257AI I only had 100 Nosler +P new cases so loaded them with a cheap 117 gr Hornady and shot them with a fast powder, formed real good. Did the same for the 223AI with new Lapua brass loaded with Barnes Varmint Grenades and shot ground squirrels with them on a pig hunt in Cali. Now I just shoot the loads that I had loaded for my AR, accurate enough load for plinking at stuff and fire-forming at the same time. It is only a waste of components if you are just blasting away at nothing. My suggestion is to just load up varmint bullets in your 6mm at max loads for the 6mm and go shoot ground squirrels. That way you can be multi-tasking, but don't lose your newly formed cases down squirrel holes.

 

[buffybr]

In the late '70s I had my .30-06 rechambered to .30 Gibbs. My gunsmith didn't have a Gibbs reamer so he used an Ackley reamer and cut the chamber to the Gibbs shoulder. The only actual difference was the shoulder angle.

At the same time I had him chamber a .257 Roberts Ackley for me. That rifle has been my favorite deer size critter rifle for me ever since.

To blow out the cases for these rifles I used both the cream of wheat method and fireforming with practice or varmint bullets. Fireforming with bullets gave me the sharpest new shoulder dimensions.

I also found that if I didn't anneal prior to fireforming I would get at least a couple of split necks with every box of new WW .257 Roberts cases. I now also anneal my cases after every second firing.

 

[std7mag]

I have 7mm-08AI & 257 Roberts AI.
I fire formed for both.
Known accurate standard loading to fireform.

The 257 AI started life as 7X57Mauser cases, necked down to 257 Roberts, then fireformed.

I haven't had any issues with split necks.

 

[MT_Chad]

I ordered a case annealer last night, so I can start testing that out shortly. Once I have some brass fire formed through the gun, I'll send off for a hydraulic die. Everything else is sitting on my reloading bench right now, I can't wait for my barrel to arrive.

 

[MT_Chad]

I have 7mm-08AI & 257 Roberts AI.
I fire formed for both.
Known accurate standard loading to fireform.

The 257 AI started life as 7X57Mauser cases, necked down to 257 Roberts, then fireformed.

I haven't had any issues with split necks.

Yeah, I think I'm going to pattern some varmint and target bullets in the standard case and see if I can find an accurate load. If that goes exceptionally well, I might hold off on the hydraulic die for a while anyway. We'll see how it goes, if component availability isn't any better by this summer, and I'm not holding out hope, I'll probably pick up a hydraulic die anyway to conserve components.

 

[Addicting]

Yeah, I think I'm going to pattern some varmint and target bullets in the standard case and see if I can find an accurate load. If that goes exceptionally well, I might hold off on the hydraulic die for a while anyway. We'll see how it goes, if component availability isn't any better by this summer, and I'm not holding out hope, I'll probably pick up a hydraulic die anyway to conserve components.

Keep in mind it will only get you 80-85% and you will not get full formed cases until the first fire.

 

[std7mag]

Also, a true Ackley Improved chamber doesn't need the bullets seated out to touch the lands for fireforming.

The standard case should fit snug (slight interference fit) at the neck/shoulder junction.

Seating a bullet out to touch the lands for fireforming just raises the pressure.

 

[ImBillT]

I’ve done cream of wheat, but usually just shoot cheap bullets. If I have two barrel I form in the less accurate or most worn out one.

I always anneal when NECKING UP OR DOWN A CALIBER. Necking up or down a long way makes the neck more prone to cracking, and anneal after that cures the problem. I DO NOT anneal JUST BECAUSE IT’S AN AI. I’ve never had issues from not annealing an AI, but annealing necks does usually get at least a little into the shoulder and does probably increase the number of cases that fully form on the first shot.

You can anneal just because it’s an AI. You might get better forming one the first shot. Usually I get pretty good forming on the first shot without annealing.