High tech hunters push ethical envelope

Ithaca 37

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GRANTS PASS, Oregon (AP) -- Ever since man picked up a rock to kill dinner, hunters have been technology pioneers. These days, they've got more gadgets than ever to choose from.

Heat sensors will spot wounded game in dense brush, remote-controlled cameras can scout game trails. There are motorized duck and deer decoys, electronic duck and coyote calls and even holographic archery sights.

But some of the latest in hunting tech pushes the ethical envelope, and some states are outlawing high-tech innovations that game managers feel give hunters an undue advantage.

A San Antonio entrepreneur recently created an uproar with a Web site, www.live-shot.com , that aims to allow hunters to shoot exotic game animals or feral pigs on his private hunting ranch by remote control, with the click of a mouse, from anywhere in the world.

"The idea of sitting at a computer screen playing a video game and activating a remote controlled firearm to shoot an animal is not hunting," said Kirby Brown, executive director of the Texas Wildlife Association, a hunters' group. "It's off the ethical charts."

The Texas game commission appears to agree, and is moving to outlaw remote-control hunting for native game animals. But it will take an act of the legislature to stop it with exotic game animals on private property, and at least one lawmaker says that is just what he will do.

Live-Shot owner John Lockwood figured his idea was not much of a stretch from the predominant Texas practice of shooting from a tree stand at deer drawn to mechanical feeders and would allow disabled hunters and servicemen overseas to continue to enjoy the sport.

Under his plan, the hunter would aim and fire a .30-06 rifle by remote control from a computer terminal, with a video camera allowing him to sight in on his prey. An attendant in the blind with the rifle could override any unsafe or unethical shots.

"It's just like it was if you paid for a guided hunt on my ranch, or any one of a thousand of them here in Texas," said Lockwood. "Ever since we stopped running after our prey and killing it with our hands we have evolved into distancing ourselves farther and farther from the game and making it more and more efficient, for whatever reason we want to take it."

For some game regulators, it was mechanical duck decoys with spinning wings -- one of them goes under the brand name Robo Duk -- that crossed the line when they began showing up at blinds. Following Pennsylvania's lead, Washington state outlawed them in 2001.

"The issue for Robo Duk is similar with some of the other technological advances," said Dave Ware, game division manager for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. Because they appear to give hunters an advantage, they presented regulators with a dilemma: should the devices be allowed but the duck season be shortened?

"When we asked hunters what their preference was, outlaw equipment or shorten seasons, they were very definite they would rather we outlaw equipment than shorten seasons because time in the field is so important to them."

Oregon followed suit in 2002, and included a prohibition against mechanical deer decoys. California restricted mechanical decoys to the latter part of duck season.

When Alabama decided last year to begin allowing decoys for turkeys, the state drew the line at motorized decoys.

The issue continues to be hotly debated around the country.

Finlay Williams created Robo Duk in Santa Maria, California, after seeing that a kite with shiny metallic spinners would draw in ducks mistaking the flash for the wings of birds landing on water.

He figures the mechanical decoy gives the occasional hunter a chance to have a more satisfying outing. Besides, the ducks that survive one encounter with Robo Duk aren't often fooled again.

To justify the longer seasons for archery hunters, Oregon outlaws such innovations as mechanical broadheads, which have blades that expand on impact, allowing the arrows to fly more accurately without the wind resistance of broadheads.

Another group that enjoys longer hunting seasons around the country are hunters who use muzzleloader rifles. In Oregon, whether they set off their blackpowder charge by flintlock, side-lock percussion, or the modern inline percussion, the ignition systems must be exposed to the wind and rain.

"It's back to the intent of maintaining a primitive weapons hunt," said Tom Thornton, game program manager for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.

Rather than going more modern, Walt Christensen, past president of the Washington State Muzzleloaders Association, is heading the other way. He plans to hunt next season with a flintlock, joining friends seeking the challenge and romance of the older technology.

"No matter what kind of weapon you use, in hunting you still have to come back to that concept: You don't shoot a game animal that is 4,000 yards away just because some advertisement says that's a reasonable thing to do," said Christensen.

As hunting innovators develop more reliable ways to take game, more ethical questions are sure to arise.

Lockwood, the Web site-hunting entrepreneur, thinks the ultimate innovation is just around the corner and is a technology that won't be very difficult to adopt.

"The next one will be lasers," he said. "How far can you shoot a laser in a straight line? As far as the eye can see, basically."


http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/04/high.techhunting.ap/index.html
 
Its not a video game, its real. They've had a successful computer assisted hunt with John's system. He uses a green light, red light system. Both the "guide" and the shooter have to agree its a good shot, or its no shot at all. John has a quadreplegic, whose body can't control its own temperature, and whose life is basically watching a screen and pecking at a computer that wants to do a computer assisted hunt. He wants to get a blackbuck antelope, the quateplegic. I hope he does. It may be illegal soon, but its legal right now. I think the non-remote part might stay legal, so if a handicapped person could make it outdoors, could make it into a blind, could operate a computer, could see the screen, then they could use the computer to pull the trigger. Some handicapped people blow in a straw to pull the trigger, some use a joystick, this computer setup gives them a standardized way to pull the trigger. That might be a good use for this.

If I ever used it, I think, it would be to send the live hunt out to my future grandchild who will be far away from me in my future retirement hunt. I could share some of it live with the grandchild, over the internet. If I could afford it. That would be an application for a normal person to use the computer setup.

Its different, that's for sure.

Here's an article about the remote hunt they had a few weeks ago.
http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/hunt7e_20050307.htm
Its better, for sure, if its on site, they just wanted to demo it for German TV, as I understand it.
 
Not my kinda Hunting. even with a bad hip i like to go out and find them myself, with a good 4x4 truck and some binoculars..Simple and sweet..thats just me.
 
If you want to play a video game, play a video game! Hunting is a lot more than pushing a button. If you don't think it is, you aren't hunting!
 
Absolutly, 110% WRONG!!!! I can not beleive what this world is coming to..... The :BLEEP: who even came up with this concept should be thrown our into a field and we should be able to shoot him from our butts at home!!!!! |oo
 
Tom- You say "dahh" but your post almost says you would use this type of hunt? You do realize you would be hunting on a screen just like you would if you were using the Cabelas Big Game Hunter III. The graphics are almost the same. You would press the button the same as you would on that video game also. You say this is real? What part? None of this is hunting. NONE!!!
 
my imaginary hunt.

MattK, In the imaginary grandfather hunt, he's sitting there with a computer and a gun hooked to it out in the outdoors. Its located in an area where game frequent. The computer sends the images over the internet, so his grandchild can interact with the grandpa over the computer even though the grandchild may be a thousand or more miles away. They could IM about the game that appear and the grandpa could shoot or not. He would share a hunt where he is out in the field, waiting for game to appear, on a trail, someplace frequented by game. He's out there using the computer to share the hunt with his grandchild. You're saying that's not real? dahhh

Its way more real than watching TV or playing a video game. dahhh
 
So the grandchild wouldn't be watching a tv screen? Why not just IM the grandkid while he is playing cabelas big game hunt III? Hey, grandson, what a great shot you put on that (you fill in the blank). I'm so glad you could join me on my fabulous hunt? The picture you are painting is pretty grim for hunting (if that's what you want to call it). I guess doing it that way, you wouldn't have to even get out of the lazy boy to shoot. I suppose a person could set up a few hundred then pick the screen to shoot from...Now there's some sport. There is no way I will ever be convinced this is something that should happen in the sport of hunting. If you think there is any way to justify being able to use a computer to shoot a big game animal, you aren't in it for the hunt, all you want to do is shoot. If that's what you want, use a tin can! How impersonal can a hunt get.

Still a video game called what ever you would like to. Why not just video tape the thing and send it to him. Talk to him on the phone while he's watching it. Or...save up a little money, send for him or go to where he's at and actually take him out hunting...then he could actually hunt and you would actually be with him and then you would have real memories together.
 
Tom, It's completely sick. Anyone who tries to justify it in any way has been living in Texas way too long. Can't those Texans quit trying to figure out easier way to kill stuff for their lazy asses? I don't even think they know what hunting really is anymore. Sit on their fat ass in a tower in the back of a pickup truck and kill animals coming into a timed feeder. Fence animals in so they can't escape. Try to justify it as some kinda interaction for grandparents and grandkids. What a bunch of crap! It's sick to want to teach children how to hunt that way.

All this doesn't even mention the real life experience of being outdoors, dealing with real blood, tracking a wounded animal, properly taking care of meat, even doing some work to earn a trophy, etc. What a bunch of crap this whole video killing charade is! Anyone who even thinks there's any justification should lose their hunting license for life. :MAD
 
IT, I disagree there. :) I only agree that the idea behind this type of "hunt" is unethical and wrong. If someone wants to hunt from their computer, they can buy a computer game.

BTW IT, you are seldom if ever right.
 
Texas E-Hunt

Tom, that's for real dyed-in-the wool pillow-biters.

When will we be able to watch one of these e-hunts on an episode of "Journal of Texas Trophy Hunters?" That pathetic show's entire existence is based on how to justify the worth of canned hunting. Throw in some tear-jerking scences of terminally ill or handicapped children, elderly women, or injured vets, and you can make anything seem OK on TV.
 
How did this thread lead to a diatribe against Texas hunters? Settle down with the fat ass stuff. I assure it doesn't fit. No real Texas hunter would endorse this high tech excuse for profiteering.
 
Everybody has their definition of real hunting, i.e. the kind of hunting I do. Well, I hope everyone gets to take their grandchild on everyone of their hunts, but that is pretty imaginary. It doesn't happen. Kids watch TV and play games. I just thought of this as a way to be more real. The grandkids have school, the grandpa doesn't. They could logon to their grandpa's hunt, he is out there. I'm not saying its the hunting of the future or the way to teach a grandchild hunting, but I don't think it is completely sick, by a long shot and I know its not a video game.

I'd like to see Ithaca try and walk throught the south Texas brush country. You can't do it without a machete. God baits, so do a lot of Texans. haha
We don't tend to chase the game all over the country side hopeing someone will chase them back to us either, that's not our standard.

A remote grandchild could not learn to go on a blood trail very well, but they could learn patience, when its a good shot, when its not and they could interact with the grandpa on his hunt, when they can't be there.

In Germany, I think its like $500-$600 per year to store a gun and it has to be stored in a special place, like a gun club or something. This setup would probably save them money, but I don't know. I think its best application is like Greenhorn said, for some tear jerker handicapped person. For a Greenhorn, you do pretty good, sometimes, eh?

A lot of you guys seem stuck at the turn of the century. Kind of like the Amish people, that's the only way to live. Wilderness hunting is one way to hunt, the world has lots of other ways. This might be one someday, its started, some people seem interested in wanting to do it.
 
i dont have a desire to kill this way......not making a judgement on it being right or wrong here....but i wonder if you guys that are against this type of "killing" would have a problem if they were only shooting coyotes or wolves???????hell, i guess i dont have a problem with it, ill click on a coyote no prob!
 
Ten it sucks bad, but I also got to side with Itch on this one also.

If you can't be there for real, in person, actually participating, it isn't hunting.
 
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